William Cooper's Mystery Babylon: Part 23 – Jordan Maxwell Interview

Transcribed by wakingup72 @ http://www.waronyou.com/forums

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Across America and around the world, once again, you're listening to the Hour of the Time. I'm your host, William Cooper...


(William Cooper does commercial for Swiss American Trading)


[William Cooper (WC)]: Tonight, folks, you'll notice the absence of our normal lead-in music. You'll also notice that we're not going into any type of a musical selection to introduce the subject matter of this program as we usually do, simply because I want to devote the maximum amount of time to our special guest tonight, Mr. Jordan Maxwell. Now, I never met Jordan Maxwell in my life until today. I don't really know him personally. I have been introduced to him circuitously through a bevy of my own personal friends whom, after listening to my lectures, after reading my book, realize that Mr. Jordan Maxwell and I have quite a bit in common. And they prompted me, pushed me, (laughs) you might say, to meet with this gentleman, and I guess that you had the same treatment on your end, didn't you, Jordan?

[Jordan Maxwell (JM)]: I certainly did, yes.

[WC]: Jordan has a fascinating background. He has paralleled my research in many avenues, in many areas, and has come up with the same conclusions, the same results, the same answers to the questions that I have asked all my life. And tonight, we're going to be talking about the answers that he has come up. But first, I'm going to ask him to introduce himself to our listening audience. Jordan?

[JM]: Well, thank you very much for asking me to be here. My name is Jordan Maxwell, as we've said. As of 1959, I became very interested in this subject of secret societies and subversive movements. I came about it because of my family. When I was very small, my mother's uncle worked in the Vatican's Secretary of State's office as a civilian, and on occasions when he would come back home to visit, back to this country, he would sit and talk for hours about the intrigue going on throughout the world, behind the scenes of religion and politics, and all the nefarious plans that are being fomented by governments and religion, and I became fascinated with this subject. Since then, I have...as I said, since 1959, I have really delved into subject myself, and I find the more that you know about this subject, the more you know how much you don't know, because it is an enormous subject that takes in not only the fraternal orders, the secret societies of Freemasonry, the occult societies going on back into the most ancient world, going back to pre-Sumerian, and those symbols and emblems which were used in the ancient world are now even being used in our world, our modern-day world and we don't even realize it. As a matter of fact, things like the oil companies, the automotive companies, the cigarette companies, use symbols and emblems. And, of course, in government, national institutions, educational institutions...our world is filled with symbols, and symbols are like the letters of the alphabet. If you put enough of them together they spell a word, and you put a lot of them together, and they tell you a story. The story I am talking about is the secret societies and occult orders that go all the way back into the ancient world, and I believe, and is my opinion, that they are still in operation today behind our major religions and major governmental agencies. The symbols and emblems you can see with your own eyes and do some research and you'll find they back into the ancient world. Now, we like to talk about...that there's a separation of church and state in America. The fact of the matter is, no such separation exists. There is a very direct connection between the religious establishment in this country and the political establishment. And, as you probably well know, has always been the case, all the way back to the pre-Sumerians there. The king was always the mediator between God and man, as well as being head of the temple state. The Pharaohs, of course, of Egypt perfected this so that they were both gods and mortals who were ruling the state. The Caesars picked up on this, of course, and it's come down through the ages, and even in our country of America today, we have a direct connection between church and state. And let me draw your attention to this and make you an example, here. Churches, when you go into most churches you will find that they are, like, three tiers high and then the altar sits on the top tier. The same is true in a courtroom. You go into a courthouse and you'll see that the bench sits on three tiers high, and the three tiers high [sic] has been traced in the reference works of Freemasonry to the first three degrees of Freemasonry.

[WC]: That's correct.

[JM]: Yes, and...so then you have the priest who comes out, the clergy who comes out with a long robe and, incidentally, the reason why clergy always wear long robes is because it's a female garment, and it represents the feminine connection with God, and that's why clergy wear a long robe. It also has to do with...when the clergy wear the long robe, the judge...when the judge comes out, he wears the same long black robe. It's the same black robe that you wear when you graduate from university or high school. The black robe is a very important symbol. It has to with a very ancient culture called the Saturnalian cult going back into the ancient Sumeric world, the worship of Saturn. Black was a color attributed to Saturn and even today, in Islam, in Mecca, in Saudi Arabia, you have this square of Mecca within the magic circle, within the Masonic circle, and Mecca is black and it's draped in a black robe, and so this is a world fraternity of secret societies that use the same symbols. But let me get back to the government, the courtroom and the church. When you're sitting in a church or, of course, looking up to the altar, and you're looking...the priest is looking down on you [sic]. There was always a fence in the church and then there's a gate, and only the priest could go through the gate to enter the altar. The same thing is true in a court. There is the fence and there's the gate, and only the attorneys can go through, and they're called the Logas (sp?) and they go through and talk to the judge for you and, of course, the judge is sitting three tiers high so he can look down on you, and you look up to him. The same symbols which are used in religion are used in political circles, and I am saying...is my opinion that what we have in America is a religio-political scheme based on a very ancient secret societies [sic] and fraternal orders, and until such time as we understand that concept that things just don't happen...I mean, what was it, Franklin Roosevelt even said, "Anything that happens in politics, it was planned that way." And until such time as you understand that things are planned in politics and that there is a rhyme and a reason to things, you know, we're never going to get to the bottom of this. A classic example of what I'm talking about is, we here in this country, we hear politicians, the President, and the local leaders saying...they just can't seem to get a handle on the crime problem, the drug problem, all of the different problems that are facing us a people, and they just can't seem to get a handle on these things. However, if you don't...if you put a wrong comma on your income tax, they can get a hold on you. (laughs) Yeah, and if you go into the Amazon jungles, they'll follow you and they will find you. And it may take a while, but they'll spend millions and they will find you, and they will bring you back here and they will deal with you in public to show the rest of the people that you can mess around with other people but you don't mess with the money and the government, OK? So, the point I'm making is that they cannot seem to get a hold on crime, but they can get a hold on you. The question should be asked: How is it that a country fifty years ago, which was a lot less sophisticated, got a hold on Adolf Hitler (and he had a standing army all over the world); they can get a hold on the Soviet national economy and destroy peoples and nations all around the world. They can get a hold on anybody they want except for the drug trade, except for the crime, and I'm saying that the crime and the drug trade in this country are purposely allowed to exist and, in certain cases, even promoted. Because, according to the ancient cults of the ancient world, there was a term that has come down to us--and many Freemasons in the audience will readily remember this--according to the ancient cults, there was something called Ordo Ab Chao, in Latin which meant, "order out of chaos." Right, so the idea was that if you can create enough chaos, that people will be sufficiently frightened and give to you the power and the political power to bring back law and order. Now, there was a television comedy program many years ago called, Get Smart. Now, when people tell you to get smart, it's implying that you're missing something here, alright? Get smart. Remember...you'll remember that on one side in the TV show, Get Smart, on one side was chaos, and the other side was control. Now I'm saying, that's exactly how you get control, by causing chaos. The idea is that, if you're going to...if you're going to pull a scam on somebody, you're going to pick somebody's pocket or something, you always have a diversion. You do something to draw the person's attention while you're picking his pocket. If you're going to break out of a prison, you'll always have the gang fight down at the far end while the guys are crawling out the hole on the other end. The idea is, you set up a diversion; you cause chaos, and out of that you can get control, because people will sufficiently frighten people will give you the power to put down these problems [sic]. Now, Adolf Hitler did this, and he worked it perfectly, and it works. A lot of people are wondering, why is it that the German people would have ever allowed Hitler to do what he did? Hitler was elected to office because of the chaos that he was doing. He was causing the chaos, the people came sufficiently frightened [sic], and so they give him the political power to put down the trouble, because they knew he was the only guy that could put down the problems, because he was the one who was causing it. So, I'm saying that the same kind of scam is being worked in this country today. We're seeing nothing but chaos and nothing but trouble, and I'm saying that it's all orchestrated. That...that you cannot, you couldn't possibly imagine people like the President of the United States making mistakes. I mean, you hear every day...what senator so-and-so made a terrible mistake, or the United States government made a terrible mistake in Vietnam, or they made a horrible mistake on this or that. This country don't [sic] make mistakes. If they do something, they have a reason for doing it. They don't pay these people, these doctors and professional psychologists and this whole army of brains at the Vatican, I mean at, well--that's a Freudian slip. Probably (laughs) at the Vatican, too. But at the, at the, what is it? The Pentagon.

[WC]: Pentagon.

[JM]: Yeah. They don't pay these people big money to make mistakes. The President, when he does something, or this government does something, they know what they're doing. Now, it may not make any sense to you, but according to other plans, if you understand what's going on behind the scenes, it makes a lot of sense. And, ...

[WC]: Well, let me interject something in here before you...Jordan, so that you'll understand. My listening audience as had twenty-two hours already. Their education is far beyond anybody that you normally talk to.

[JM]: Right, right.

[WC]: They understand what we're talking about. They understand the involvement of the Vatican, they understand the symbology of the Mystery Schools.

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: Now, we may some listening audience out there [sic] who just tuned into the show, or just found it a couple of shows ago, but most of my listening audience worldwide have been listening since the 4th of May, 1992, and have an extensive education into all of this. So, if you want to cut to the meat of the matter, these people will understand. You don't have to build up to it.

[JM]: (laughs) Well, I mean, I talk to audiences so often and I'm aware that, when I'm talking to an audience of people, generally, I have not been initiated into this kind of thinking, and so that's why I try and lay out a foundation for [sic]. There are a lot of occult symbols and emblems in government and religion and I want to get into one in particular. The Nazis, the Communists, the fascists and all of the ancient world powers that have ever existed have used one common symbol continually, and that's the sun. Now, if you understand that the earliest history, the pre-history of the human race goes back into the most ancient times, and God knows how far back that would be, ten, twenty thousand, maybe fifty thousand years, I don't know. But if you go back to the earliest times of the human race, you can appreciate that the world was a very different place than what we live in today. OK? And so, if you understand that it was a very cold and very fearful world at night, OK? And if you'll understand also that in that cold and fearful world, when the sun went down, there was a lot of fear for your life, there were a lot of predatory animals, and so the coming of the sun the next morning was always something to look forward to, that brought warmth, that brought light, and brought security. And around that concept grew a whole religio-political philosophy of the coming of the sun, "God's Sun," the light of the world, and has been used by the ancient Egyptians, all the Mystery Schools and, of course, you probably will know it was referred to as Baal worship at one time. Baal was the son, "God's Sun", the light of the world, and...you know, the whole concept in the ancient world was that he had twelve helpers, which were the twelve signs of the Zodiac or the twelve months of the year. And, of course, he died, of course, with a crown of thorns, like the Statue of Liberty has a crown of thorns. It's the corona or the sun rays. And when we begin to see all of these connections...and, of course, in the spring of the year, the sun, which had died in winter, had passed over from the death of winter into the new life of spring, so in the old Semitic world, they celebrated the Passover. And we even say that today when someone dies--they passed on, or they passed away, or they passed over.

[WC]: Right.

[JM]: And so we get the old symbolism out of Egypt of the sun dying in the winter and passing over to the new life of spring. And so, the beginning of spring we have the Passover. Uh, it's an interesting thing, too, about the Sun, is that the ancient world realized that on...the December 22nd, which was the winter solstice, they noticed something interesting on the sundials and, of course, the sundials being round, they could each degree for each date [sic], they noticed that on the 22nd, the sun did not move on the 22nd; it stayed on the sundial on the same degree. On the 23rd, it stayed on the same degree; it didn't move any further south and it didn't start back north. On the 24th, it was still on the same degree on the sundial; it didn't move. So they said--the ancient Egyptians said--anything that was moving and is now not moving is dead. So, therefore, they say that God's Sun died and was in his tomb, or dead, for three days. Then on December 25th, anything that was dead and in his grave and not moving for three days, and now begins to move back to the northern hemisphere, it moved its first degree, so on December 25th, they said God's Sun is born on December 25th.

[WC]: Now, in the real world, this clarifies something for a lot of people that are listening out there. You're not talking anything about Christmas, you're not talking about what Christians traditionally recognize as...

[JM]: No, I'm getting into symbolism...

[WC]: ...the birth of Christ, you're getting into the symbolism...

[JM]: ...the symbolism...

[WC]: ...of the ancient religion of the sun...

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: ...which was later perverted in Christianity to reflect this, in order to capture the pagan worshipers into the Christian church.

[JM]: Absolutely, right. Now, what I'm saying is that...

[WC]: Yeah, December the 25th is not Christ's birthday.

[JM]: No, not at all, no. It's the birthday of the Sun. (laughs)

[WC]: That's correct.

[JM]: And then...but then when you understand that this symbolism began to be a...the ancient peoples understood that the sun was revolved and it was a symbol of revolution [sic]. And today in America we have...or at least the western part of the United States, we have an oil company called Union Oil. Union Oil has as its symbol a ray or orange globe with a 76 and, of course, the commercial says, "Get the spirit, the spirit of 76." The orange globe is the sun, because the Communists have always used the rising sun, you know...if you'll recall, on the Soviet national coat of arms is a rising sun that's bringing the dawn of a new day.

[WC]: And the symbology of 76 plugs into what's called the...

[JM]: ...union, 76, and the 13, 7 [plus] 6 is 13.

[WC]: ...and the order of the trapezoid and if you figure out the formula of the ancient religion which says, "As above, so below..."

[JM]: Yes.

[WC]: The creation of this country in 1776 was guaranteed to bring into the world the new man, the illumined man...

[JM]: Exactly.

[WC]: Three degrees of six [inaudible], or 666.

[JM]: Right. And 8 is the number in the old Kabbalistic Freemasonry, and [your] 8 was the number of new beginnings, and the new beginnings was 17, that's 7 and 1, 8, and 13 was, of course, the old mystic number of God and his 12 helpers of God, and his months make 13. And so...

[WC]: It's also the number of death and rebirth...

[JM]: Absolutely...

[WC]: ...and resurrection or reincarnation, depending upon how you look at that, but...

[JM]: So, once you get into all of the symbolism, you see that there's a rhyme and a reason to all these emblems and symbols. And something else in relation to word symbols, and God knows we're inundated by innuendos and catchphrases in this country especially. We've been hearing, since George Bush [Sr.] made it publicly known, something called the New World Order. I want to clarify something for your audience; they probably might already know this, but Europe has been referred to as the Old World, and anything coming out of Europe is Old World, alright? The Vatican has dominated Europe for about 1500, 1600 years, the Vatican has dominated Europe, Europe has dominated the world. There was a religio-political economic scheme of things. That was the order of the day; the old banking houses of the Roman Empire, the old, uh, what was some of the families, Arius (sp?), Calpurnius [Piso], the Piso's family, who were a very powerful banking family who were the main brains behind...they were the Rockefellers of the Roman empire...

[WC]: The Medici's?

[JM]: The Medici's, absolutely. And so, when you understand that there was a banking, fraternal, religio-political order that operated throughout the world, and the Vatican sat on top of that, and that was an Old World Order. Now, with the coming of America--of course, America is referred to as the New World--and so, what we have now is a New World Order. And that New World Order implies that there is a fraternal order operating throughout the world, operating out of America that seeks to take the place of the Old World Order and bring a new order of the world, but you must understand that you cannot have a new order, or a new building, on the same site as an old building. So, you gotta get rid of the old order first, and bring in the new order. When you get into that, and I'm sorry, I got a frog in my throat.

[WC]: That's OK.

[JM]: When you get into that, you get into the symbolism of Steve Spielberg and Lucas, George Lucas bring up about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and, of course, you can't understand the last crusade if you don't understand the first crusade, right?

[WC]: (laughs) Or the next crusade.

[JM]: Or the next crusade, which is the real crusade, right. And then from there you get the trilogy of Star Wars, and then The Empire Strikes Back and, of course, New York is referred to as the Empire State.

[WC]: That's correct.

[JM]: Alright? And so, you get The Empire Strikes Back and then, of course, you might know this...that, in Freemasonry, there is a little ideologue, or a little genie-like mystical character supposedly in Freemasonry that they said was their mediator between the gods and the Freemasons of the Knights Templars. And that little saint, or that little...what I say [sic]...mediator in the old Knights Templar tradition was a little, short, little monster with pointed ears and his name was Yoda, and you go into the old Masonic literature and pictured...you'll see pictures of Yoda, because he was a Jedi Knight, and if you understand that, the Jedi Knights was connected [sic] to the old order of the knightshood [sic] of the Knights Templars. So, what we're talking about here is the "star wars", we're talking about a spiritual war in the heavens, so to speak.

[WC]: This was a cosmology, a celestial religion, so to speak.

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: They talk about moving on to the celestial sphere...

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: ...when they discuss passing...

[JM]: The sun was...the ancient Egyptians said that the sun walked across the sky, so, therefore, we have Luke Skywalker, you know...

[WC]: ...and from this comes "a thousand points of light", and many other things...

[JM]: A thousand points of light, or a thousand-year reign of the Nazi empire, or whatever. And what we're talking about here is secret societies and their use of symbols and emblems in religion and politics and philosophy and...incidentally, when you go to...when you graduate from university--[I meant] to bring this out--when you graduate from university you wear a long black robe. The black robe is, or course, the same black robe that the priests wear. It's the same black robe that the judge wears, alright? Because the black robe symbolize...it goes back to the old Saturnalian cult, which was pre-Egyptian, the worship of Saturn. And according to that ancient Semitic cult, when you got married, you wear the ring. The ring was a ring of Saturn. The women would show their submission to that god by wearing the earring. That's where we get the idea of the king being crowned; he wears a crown, or the round circle of the god of Saturn. Saturn, as I said, was assigned the color black and, therefore, the black robe is a worship of Saturn, the Saturnalian god. What was I going to say about...oh yes, and when you graduate, you graduate with a, uh, square mortar board. The square mortarboard is always the symbol of the brick masons used to mark a board. And then, of course, when you graduate, you are referred to as an alumni, which comes from the world allumini; you have been illuminated, which basically means you now know what to kiss and when, and how to think and what to think and how to act and you have been properly educated...

[WC]: Belong to the priesthood.

[JM]: That's right, you belong to the priesthood, and if you go along to get along, and don't cause any problems, then you...

[WC]: ...don't go along to get along, you get a little, right?

[JM]: That's right, exactly. (laughs)

[WC]: Nobody else gets any [of it].

[JM]: My point is, and I've said this to so many audiences, that there is...this country, the United States, as no real enemies in the world. After the second world war, especially is that true.

[WC]: Every enemy, even before the second world war, were enemies that we've had, and a creation of this country.

[JM]: We created them, absolutely. But there is one, there is one legitimate, believable enemy that faces America that the powers behind the throne in this country in America are truly afraid of. And this is legitimate They are totally frightened to death of us, the people, because they realize if the people ever wake up--I mean, something Joe Kennedy was quoted as saying, something to the effect of, "Beware the American conscience, because if they ever wake up and find out what we're doing, it's going to be [hell to pay]." And so, I believe there is a legitimate enemy that this country perceives, and that's us: people who think too much, people who read too much, and people who talk too much.

[WC]: But that's always the case though, Jordan, because we know that what's coming is going to be a Socialist state.

[JM]: Oh, totally.

[WC]: Every time Socialism has won anywhere, the first thing that they've done is that they have literally perverted the Intelligencia, which has brought them to power, and then the first thing that they did was to kill...

[JM]: ...to kill, get rid...

[WC]: ...the Intelligencia, they killed them.

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: I mean the Intelligencia aren't that intelligent. They haven't learned this yet because they're still doing it.

[JM]: The more we change, the more we stay the same.

[WC]: That's right, we'll come back to that in just a few minutes. Folks, I hope you're paying attention to this show, because Jordan has an awful lot to say, and you can hear that he's right in tune with what we've covered before. Don't go away. It's time to take to our break. We'll be right back, after this very short pause.


(William Cooper does commercial for Swiss American Trading)


[WC]: And now, let's get back to our regular program and our very special guest tonight, Mr. Jordan Maxwell. Jordan, can we talk about some of the symbols, the symbology that people are going to run into in their everyday life as they go about their business, and maybe haven't even understood what these things mean?

[JM]: Yes, as a matter of fact, as we were saying before that the world around us is filled with emblems and symbols. And if you know how to read the symbols, you can tell what people are coming from. You can tell what organizations are coming from. For instance, in Washington, D.C., which is a very interesting place, you have the Washington Monument which is, of course, the Egyptian obelisk. Now, the Egyptian obelisk is pointing...is, of course, the male phallic symbol, OK? And the male, phallic on the Washington Monument [sic] is connected to something in the White House called the Oval Office. And when you understand the male phallic with the female Oval Office, you're talking about the coming of life, and that's the life of the nation. You have the Pentagon; the United States Pentagon comes from the word...from the five-pointed pentagram. If you take the arms off of a five-pointed star, which has been used in devil worship and Satanic worship for thousands of years, if you understand, you take the arms off of a five-pointed star, the interior of the star is called a pentagon. And so, we have the United States Pentagon and, of course, the pentagon is used by the Chrysler Corporation as their symbol, the pentagon. Why? Because Chrysler was the company that was chosen to make the military hardware for the United States and they had the contract, so that's why they still use the pentagon as their symbol. And on the back of the dollar bill, of course, we don't want to forget that, because the dollar bill is cram filled [sic] with symbols. And Roosevelt, Franklin Delanor Roosevelt, said that the reason why it was all these symbols [sic] were put on a one dollar bill is because you figured that, all over the world, people...any...no matter how poor you were, you would have in your hand the almighty dollar. And if have in your hand the one dollar bill, then you have in your hand all of the symbolism of the secret societies and the occult orders. Of course, one the left-hand side of the back of the dollar bill, you have the pyramid. Now you got to ask yourself, why would you have an Egyptian pyramid on an American dollar bill? And then, you will see the letters, Annuit Cœptis, over the top of the pyramid. Annuit Cœptis, in Latin, means, "Our enterprise is now a success," or "God has favored our enterprise." The enterprise, of course, is on the banner beneath the pyramid, which is Novus Ordo Seclorum, which is the new order of the world. New order, of Seclorum [sic] is where we get the word "secular," anything that's worldly. So, now we're talking about a New World Order on the bottom of the pyramid. You will find that the pyramid has thirteen layers, and there are thirteen letters in Annuit Cœptis, and then if you go to the right-side, you'll see the seal of America with the eagle, and above the eagle you have thirteen stars, which stand for the thirteen colonies originally. But the thirteen colonies and the thirteen stars go back to Jesus and the twelve [disciples], because they are moving in on and using--the ancient societies--moving in on the teachings of Christianity and posing themselves under the thirteen, being Jesus and the chosen twelve. Then you've got the thirteen, let's see...on the right-hand side, you've got the...on one side of the eagle, you have the thirteen leaves and the thirteen berries in the thirteen leaves, and then on the other side, you have the thirteen arrows. Everything is done is sequence of thirteen. Of course, on the...something else I wanted to bring up while I'm thinking about it, is that so much of what we have seen in movies and television are symbols. Are you aware that I have been talking to some doctors in Los Angeles who have been doing some research on this, and I find it to be absolutely fascinating, that many of the gangs, the Latino and the black gangs in the major cities across America, their graffiti that they are spraying on buildings, their graffiti are actually Masonic emblems and Masonic seals and symbols, and I have seen a whole collection that these doctors have. These are medical doctors, but they are interested in this subject, and they have been collecting hundreds of pictures of graffiti and showing the research into the ancient secret societies, and there's no way that these black and Latino gangs could know these symbols. There's definitely a connection between the gangs and some sort of a higher, orchestrated mind behind the warfare going on between gangs. I don't think those gangs are by chance. I think they have been nurtured, and orchestrated, and promoted, and even financed. I mean, if you think about it, how those gangs have money to travel all around, they can buy guns, they can roam around, they don't have to work...where are they getting their money from?

[WC]: Well, not only that, but their main occupation is...

[JM]: ...is chaos!

[WC]: ...the narcotics business...

[JM]: Of course!

[WC]: ...and fomenting chaos, confusion and fear.

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: And they haven't got the background of understanding, learning to put together the kind of logistics network that it would take to supply this kind of an enterprise.

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: So, someone with an awful lot of money, an awful lot of organization, an absolute ability to provide 100% protection is supplying these city gangs. It's not the mafia.

[JM]: You can bet on it.

[WC]: (laughs)

[JM]: You can bet on it.

[WC]: This is a very sophisticated, totally protected organization.

[JM]: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, the San Francisco Chronicle had a two full pages [sic] in one of their newspapers I still have [sic], where they were talking about how this federal government was bringing in narcotics from Asia during the Vietnam War in the bodies of American serviceman that were being killed in Vietnam and they were bringing in bags of pure heroin and pure narcotics from Asia in the bodies of American serviceman. And what were they doing with it? They were giving it directly to the mafia, because the mafia is doing a little tricks [sic] for the government...it takes care of business for the government, and so they have to be paid.

[WC]: Well, let's clarify one thing here. It's not the government...

[JM]: Well, it's...

[WC]: ...it is the secret societies...

[JM]: ...operating behind our government.

[WC]: That's correct.

[JM]: Exactly, yes.

[WC]: Behind the veil of national security...

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: And I might remind you that, back in history when Albert Pike and Giuseppe Mazzini were corresponding and were setting up the core foundation of the Illuminati within Freemasonry, both in their respective countries, and at that time, of course, Albert Pike was the Grand Commander of Freemasonry and throughout the world, and Giuseppe Mazzini was his counterpart in Europe [inaudible]. It was Giuseppe Mazzini who created and fostered and gave the charter to the...what is now known as the mafia.

[JM]: That's right. La Costa Nostra was Mazzini.

[WC]: That's correct.

[JM]: A Masonic order, no doubt about it.

[WC]: And this explains the close cooperation between...

[JM]: ...between government and the mafia.

[WC]: That is right.

[JM]: Absolutely. And when we also understand that the old magic practicing priests, that the old Celtic druid priests of ancient England in the person of Merlin the Magician [sic]. When you understand that the old priests, the magicians work their magic on people with their magic wands, and their magic wands were always made out of holly wood. And they're still working their magic today with Hollywood. If you understand how we are being manipulated, we're being programmed...Hollywood is nothing more than an instrument in the hands of the secret societies. And then, Los Angeles...anyone who knows anything about the motion picture industry knows that the real bosses are in New York and back east. Nobody makes any decisions here in Los Angeles. Those decisions are made by some very powerful people behind the scenes in New York and upstate New York.

[WC]: And we're not talking about just Hollywood. We're talking about the media overall in general, including print, television, radio...

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: The whole works and, specifically, what we're looking at is a very sophisticated method of...

[JM]: Manipulation.

[WC]: ...manipulation and brainwashing.

[JM]: And exploitation.

[WC]: Correct.

[JM]: Absolute exploitation of people's ignorance. Somewhere along the line, and as I said to you before a few minutes ago, the greatest enemy this country will ever face--the people who are behind the scenes of government in this country--their greatest enemy is you. You who think too much...as a matter of fact, there was a movie, there was a motion picture called...oh, what was it, a few years back called Network, and in the movie, Network, at the end of the movie the star, that was a newsman, and he said something to the effect that you don't have to worry about America being destroyed, America's not going anywhere because we feed everybody. So if we go, the whole world goes because we're feeding everybody. But there is something that is lost forever. There is something that has gone, and is legitimately lost, and that is your freedom as an individual human being to be free, to do your own thinking, to be your own person. That is lost. You have been taken over and you don't even know it. And he said the reason why is because you don't read, you don't think, you want to be entertained by Bugs Bunny and Big Top Pee-wee, all you want is your recappable tires (laughs) like he says, and all of your creature comforts, and you don't want to put yourself out and so, consequently...[commas?] the law of [comma?] of cause and effect. You have not defended your freedoms, and if you don't defend your freedoms and your rights, then you don't have any.

[WC]: That's correct. Now, let's go back to the symbology and we're talking about the back, the reverse seal of the United States of America.

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: We see at the top of this pyramid--which, by the way, does not have a capstone--we see an eye surrounded by rays, and this eye signifies, really in the beginning, signified the sun.

[JM]: Yeah, of course. Of course, the god of the sun.

[WC]: That's correct, and we see that same symbol as the insignia for CBS.

[JM]: Mmm-hmm, CBS eye, that's right.

[WC]: (laughs) And we also see, in the NBC peacock, a tail and each feather of the tail is an eye on it. And we also see the symbol of one of the information computer networks, America Online is the pyramid with the, again, all-seeing eye.

[JM]: Oh yes, it's everywhere.

[WC]: We see the symbol of Prodigy, which is another computer information service...

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: ...which has as its symbol the pentagram.

[JM]: Of course.

[WC]: And by the way, folks, there's been a lawsuit brought against Prodigy because it has been discovered that, as you sign on to the Prodigy computer bulletin board database system, built into the program that they send you so you can sign on to this system and use it, is a method whereby they actually read the information on your personal hard drive on your personal computer. And I don't know where they go...where that goes or what they do with it, but there has been a lawsuit that's been brought against Prodigy for...they've been caught in the act is what I'm trying to tell you.

[JM]: Yes, right.

[WC]: And it's in court right now. We'll let you know how that's resolved and what happens, but I will tell you, if you're signing on to some of these national computer information database systems, there's a good chance that...

[JM]: You're the one that's being...(laughs)

[WC]: You're the one that is begin...

[JM]: ...computerized.

[WC]: ...probed for information while you think that you're probing them for information. It's actually the other way around, and it's setup intentionally that way.

[JM]:I had an interesting conversation with a very high ranking rabbi in America about three or four years ago. And he had written a book, and I was very interested in it, about symbolism, or occult symbolism in America. Some of the interesting things he brought out was the movie, Frankenstein. If you break the word down, "Frank-en-stein," and it goes back to Jacob Frank, and Jacob Frank in Europe was among the leading members of the Illuminati in Europe. And the idea was is that, in the old movie, Boris Karloff comes out and tells you, in the old original 1933 movie of Frankenstein, he comes out and says that this is a story about a old [sic] mad scientist at Bavarian University of Ingolstadt, and he has put together all of these nefarious pieces and created a monster, and that's what "Frank-en-stein" meant. And the rabbi was bringing out that all this...this story of Frankenstein was is that Bavarian professor, Adam Weishaupt, had put together a Frankenstein monster to frighten the world, and what he did is he used different people and put them together, the different pieces, into a monster. And so, Hollywood has known these stories. Hollywood is totally aware of all of these symbolism [sic] that's, you know, that's behind these stories. And so, I'm saying there is no way we are going to remain a free people without facing the facts that it's an educated electorate. We love to go around talking about how we have to right to elect. Boy, in America, we have to right to elect, but we don't have the right to SEE-lect. That's what the problem is. So, without education, without knowledge and understanding, which comes from many hours of study and listening and understanding and researching on your own, we're not going to remain a free people.

[WC]: And that's really the key, is not to believe anything that you hear from anyone, including me, including you...

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: ...including your own mother. People have got to learn to start digging up and researching and studying...

[JM]: All of this on their own.

[WC]: Absolutely.

[JM]: And then you make it your own. Then you will finally see how we have been had as a people. And believe me, we are in serious trouble, because...the secret societies, the Masonic orders today, when I have asked these Freemasons who is it that is actually running your organization, they will tell you that they have a name for them. They're called the "hidden masters".

[WC]: The hidden supervisors, the...

[JM]: The hidden supervisors, the hidden masters...

[WC]: ...and it's always nine...

[JM]: Right, right.

[WC]: ...and that goes back to the legend of the beginning of the Order of the Rose and Cross...

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: ...and Hiram Abiff, and the whole works, all the way back into history, that there is a round table of nine somewhere who's guiding all the machinations of the secret societies, leading to a one-world government. Now, I don't know if these nine people really exist.

[JM]: It doesn't matter. What we do know...

[WC]: That's exactly right. It doesn't matter. (laughs)

[JM]: It doesn't matter. But what we do know is that it is organized, it is orchestrated and there is a method to the madness.

[WC]: That's correct.

[JM]: And it may not make any sense to you, because you don't know what's going on. But if you were on the inner sanctums [sic] of these criminals, as they are planning their criminology throughout the world and their bloodshed [sic], if you were a fly on the wall meeting with these criminals, then you would see that the things which are happening in the world make sense.

[WC]: That's correct. And also, one of the methods that they manipulate us is to turn us against each other.

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: Racism is a form of this.

[JM]: Yes.

[WC]: Getting different religions to fight against each other is a form of this.

[JM]: But that's a protection to them. As long as you're out fighting somebody else, you're not joining forces to uncover them.

[WC]: It's part of the...

[JM]: Plan.

[WC]: ...detraction..

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: ...the illusion, so that we're not looking in the right corner to see the cockroaches doing the real damage...

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: ...when they crawl out from under the sink at midnight.

[JM]: And that's a very good analogy, because that's just what they are. They're cockroaches.

[WC]: (laughs)

[JM]: One of the most...and, as a matter of fact, they have symbolism in words, as I said, and I want to throw this one at you. In California, we have something called a criminal justice system. Think about it, it's a criminal justice system. And they know what they're doing, I mean, they have this thing back in Georgia called the...what is it? The Center of Disease Control. It's not the Center for Disease Eradication, it's the Center of Disease Control. The whole...the way that we have grown up in this country, accepting symbols, emblems, words, institutions, government symbols, we need to educate yourselves that there's a whole world of knowledge there that we have not been privy to know.

[WC]: Well, their concept of us, meaning the normal, everyday guy, and I consider myself to be in that category.

[JM]: Right.

[WC]: I'm just like everybody else out there. Probably, if I never had been a member of the Office of Naval Intelligence, I would never have caught on to any of this and would not be doing what I'm doing right now. So, I'm no different than the average listener out there. It's just that one day I woke up, looked myself in the mirror and said, "Bill, you've been stupid for all of your life." I'm not going to be stupid anymore. Now I've got to do something smart. I've got to wise up, and that's really the only thing that separates me from most other people. So...but, their concept of us is that we're like animals, like cattle. That we don't have any intelligence.

[JM]: Precisely, that's why that say that our offspring are "kids". We have kids.

[WC]: And they rub it in our face.

[JM]: Absolutely.

[WC]: They rub our nose in the...

[JM]: And we go around saying that we have kids. Now, kids are baby goats. That's what they think of us. We're a bunch of goats, a bunch of animals...

[WC]: Cattle.

[JM]: Cattle, and that we deserve...they figure we're going to get taken anyway, because we're so stupid, their idea is that, since we're going to get taken anyway...

[WC]: They might as well do...

[JM]: ...they might as well just go on and do it, because...

[WC]: Somebody's going to do it anyway.

[JM]: Absolutely. So, I'm saying I'm tired of being taken.

[WC]: Me too.

[JM]: And I want to wake the people up around the world to the fact that there's a method to the madness. It is orchestrated, organized, directed and financed by criminals, and until such time as you understand that, you're never going to see this world getting any better. And somebody has to take up the reins, somebody has to do this. And we're putting our lives on the line by doing this, but at this point, I don't care anymore. All I want is to see this master conspiracy uncovered. I'd like to see all of this stuff uncovered for the first time, and that's exactly what this...the people behind our government do not want. They don't want the people to wake up. That's why they give you plenty of liquor stores, to make sure you got plenty of booze and plenty of alcohol and plenty of entertainment...

[WC]: And plenty of dope and plenty of football games...

[JM]: Right, anything!

[WC]: ...and this is all the concept of the old Roman circus.

[JM]: That's it.

[WC]: When the emperor didn't want you to see what he was doing, he would give you...

[JM]: [Bread and] circuses. Entertainment.

[WC]: That's right. Wine...

[JM]: ...on your way out.

[WC]: Folks, I'm going to quote from chapter one of my book, Behold a Pale Horse, and I want you to remember this, because this is their philosophy: "A nation or world of people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence and such people are beasts of burden and steaks on the table, by choice and consent." Now, if you'd like to write to Jordan Maxwell and ask him for further information, or just send him your thoughts and ideas on this program, you can do so in care of Jordan Maxwell, Post Office Box 7442, Burbank, California, 91510. Once again, now write this down. If you don't have a pen and paper, you better get one quick. You know you should never listen to this program, the Hour of the Time, without pen and paper, because you're going to get caught with your pants down every time. The name, once again, is Jordan Maxwell, Post Office Box 7442, Burbank, California, 91510. One more time for the slowpokes: Jordan Maxwell, Post Office Box 7442, Burbank, California, 91510. If you'd like to write to me and ask for a packet of information or give me your comments on this program, write to Post Office Box 1420, Show Low, Arizona, 85901. That's Post Office Box 1420, Show Low, Arizona, 85901. You know, we've done...I guess tonight makes the 23rd hour of programming on the Mystery Schools. This is the only, only media outlet in the world where any of this information has ever been aired in the entirety, in the complexity, and the depth that we have aired it. We've turned over the rocks, we've watched the bugs scurry, we've shined a bright light on them. They consider themselves to be illumined, but I'm going to tell you folks right now: those of you who've been listening to this program regularly are the only illumined, truly illumined people in this world. And where these members of these secret societies pretend to be working for the illumination, the furtherance of the human race and for a thousand years of true peace, they are liars, deceivers, manipulators and criminals. And the only people who are ever going to bring peace into this world will be you and I, the people like Jordan Maxwell, people who really care about peace and security, and about our children and about our future. Remember that, folks, as you go to bed tonight. Remember, we love you here, we're thinking of you. Good night, and God bless you all.


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